Newsvine - 'Legalizing Marijuana: One Very Bad Idea.' A retort.

Nice. I hadn't read the original article, but you're retorts are good, even for my [Dutch] standards ;). I also read a pretty good drug-special in the Economist a few years ago, let me track it down: here. It's part of a series of related articles, which I'm sure can be found with some searching.
At the same time, while I believe in the concept of letting the individual decide, I do not see Marijuana as a healthy habit. It's all and good when moderated, but I've seen too many people cross the line and make a lifestyle out of it. However, while I know quite a few marijuana-takers, none I know has crossed over to hard-drugs or crime. That's mostly to do with level of education, personality, and environment I think. In general, I think legalisation will help as it also increases the level of education about it, with people being able to make a much more informed choice.

I think the original author has never had REAL marijuana. Dutch weed will cripple you into an oblivion.

There are however thousands of documented cases every day where alcohol-users turns violent.

The fact that alcohol can be legally consumed seems to be the basis of your whole article. Maybe we should just ban alcohol (it is a mind altering drug, after all), rather than use that as a reason to allow marijuana...? If we legalize marijuana, why not cocaine and heroin?

Here you presume that the legalization of marijuana will legalize driving when stoned.

Not any more so that presuming that it won't happen. Look at the number of drunk driving deaths each year. Just because it isn't legal to drive under the influence doesn't mean it won't happen (and can you honestly say you don't think it would happen more if marijuana is legalized?).

Regarding #1, decriminalizing something does reduce crime, just as criminalizing something increases it. It's just simple math. Every new law creates new criminals. You learn that in criminal justice 101. It's how the law works.

The original post, written by Josh Halbert, leads me to believe he's never experienced marijuana, and can't really speak from authority. The assertion that being on marijuana increases your likelihood of committing a crime is pretty far out. It increases your likelihood of sitting on your ass and eating a bunch of chips.

If we legalize marijuana, why not cocaine and heroin?

I agree with this statement, while I know that you do not. All of these drugs should be legalized, because legislating behavior does not cause the behavior to change. People will still do heroin, cocaine, etc., except for it will be legal, much cheaper, safer, and they won't have to mug someone on the street to get money to pay for black market prices. Competition will drive prices down, and drug-related violent crimes would plummet.

Drug addiction should be treated medically, not criminally.

Think about how much money would be saved per year if just marijuana users were no longer arrested! There were 771,605 arrests for marijuana crimes in 2004 In the United States. It costs $50,000 a year to keep someone incarcerated. If every one of these arrested people were only kept in jail for 1 day (much less than the truth), it would cost over 100 million dollars a year to keep them imprisoned.

The fact that alcohol can be legally consumed seems to be the basis of your whole article. Maybe we should just ban alcohol (it is a mind altering drug, after all), rather than use that as a reason to allow marijuana...? If we legalize marijuana, why not cocaine and heroin?

We've tried criminalizing alcohol, and it only led to more irresponsible consumption, as well as more violence as an entire criminal enterprise sprung up around it's supply. Negating the prohibition amendment was a good thing for the government because it meant the supply (and, to a lesser extent, the purchase) of alcohol could be regulated, monitored, and taxed.

We've got people smuggling marijuana into the country in large enough numbers to be concerned about, which is untaxed, unregulated, and impossible to stop on the little funding we're able to spread to it. Legalizing marijuana would allow the government to collect millions from it's import and sale in taxes instead of spending billions on a losing battle against it.

As for legalizing cocaine and heroin, I'm not as sure of their effects in terms of violence, but here's a counter-question: If their effects were less harmful, in terms of mind-alteration and behavior surrounding the drug culture, why shouldn't we?

Not any more so that presuming that it won't happen. Look at the number of drunk driving deaths each year. Just because it isn't legal to drive under the influence doesn't mean it won't happen (and can you honestly say you don't think it would happen more if marijuana is legalized?).

But the effects of, say, alcohol, are completely different than those of Marijuana. Alcohol, a depressant, can make people anywhere from cuddly to angry and belligerent, while marijuana tends to make people confused, slightly paranoid, lazy, and hungry. But drunk people, (or, more properly, people impaired enough by alcohol to run into a tree or a little girl on a tricycle) are still capable of remembering where their car keys are. Even if they're in their pockets.

Also, people who are capable of driving while under the influence tend to go faster while drunk, and to think they're going faster while actually going about 4 mph while stoned.

Firstly I find it interesting that you can longer comment on his article, maybe too many people have pointed out flaws in his opinion? I mean he keeps saying that Marijuana causes people to be 'completely out of their mind', so does alcohol but they legalised that.

Oh and someone under the influence of Marijuana could accidentally lose control or act stupid behind the wheel of a vehicle... Has he never heard of deaths by drink driving? Idiot.

Say you are walking home from a pub and on both sides of the road are a group of lads. One group are grinning to themselves walking home after a smoke , the other are rowdy and shouting because they are drunk. Which side of the road would you walk on?

Smoking Marijuana does not make you aggressive, drinking alcohol in excess does.
Smoking Marijuana has healths risks, drinking alcohol does too.

So why do people insist on saying the Marijuana is worst that alcohol?

Nice response, Erik. It is obvious that the OP Halbert has a) never smoked pot b) never been around anyone smoking pot c) wrote a biased, factless, worthless article. Good on ya mate.

Also, in the original article halbert wrote : "Instead of legalizing pot we should crack down on it with ruthless force. Anybody caught with it should serve 1 year jail time for every ounce found on them." Ha! Great idea... It's not like our overcrowded prison system shouldn't have more nonviolent drug offenders. Since we only have 50% of people incarcerated now for drug charges, lets up that to 80% and pay for that out of our tax dollars! Great idea!

montechristo-

I respect the opinion of Erik, you, and anybody else regardless of their stance. What I ask is that you refrain from personal attacks and do your best to respect my ideas as well. Everyone else who has commented at least has had the courtesy to attack my ideas, not me.

As for your argument, this brings up yet another issue. If everybody would pay their taxes, we would have nowhere near the amount problems we do. Also, you are not understanding the idea behind my point. My point was not to arrest half the people in the US, but to scare them to the point that we won't have to.

-Josh

Ha, as a teenager that has had experience with Marijuana (too much experience maybe) I still don't think it should be legalized. It's stupid to make it legal. American people fight everyday to make Tobacco illegal, but then some of these same people think marijuana should be legal? It's insane.

Alcohol and Tobacco aren't illegal because it is apart of American life now. Marijuana isn't, and never should be.

There would be too large of a backlash if either was made illegal (i.e.- Prohibition... which single handedly started organized crime). Tobacco especially has ties with American history and culture. It helped our economy grow and make the nation stronger.

But marijuana doesn't have a tie into American history and American culture (maybe the 60's but that's about it). Why make something legal, when in a few years down the road people are going to try to make it illegal again?

The root of this argument goes back to very basic ideals regarding personal choice and freedom.

OK here's something a lot of people dont know or realize. Marijuana is the LEAST DANGEROUS drug out there. It is NOT addictive, or dependancy creating. I quote my Biology textbook, which contains material that largely overlaps with the Barron's textbook for SAT-II Biology:

"Marijuana is a hallucinogen which is one of the derivatives of the Hemp plant. Hemp drugs dilate pupils, raise blood sugar level and increase frequency of urination. These cause red eyes, dry mouth, increased appetite, delayed responses and impaired driving. Excessive use of hemp drugs may lead to euphoria, hallucination, drowsiness and continual laughing. Hemp drugs are relatively less harmful but their addicts may shift to opium, and also when taken with alcohol they may prove dangerous."

They describe cociane and heroin in a seperate section titled narcotics:

"Heroin: It is a white crystal opoid formed by the acetylation of morphine. It is twice is potent as morphine and about 200 times stronger than opium. It is highly addictive and is the most dangerous opiate. Therefore its medicinal use has been banned... Heroin addicts rapidly develop tolerance to the drug. Continually large doses are then required to produce the same degree of euphoria. Used chronically, heroin leads to both psychological and physical dependance. When a heroin addict fails to get the drug, he develops severe withdrawal symptoms."

"Cocaine: It is a colourless crystallaine substance having a bitter taste. It is a CNS stimulant, and increases mental alertness and ohysical strength. It reduces sleep and appetite. Initially it causes dryness of the mouth, a bitter taste, a sense of well being and increased physical and mental energy. Its addiction leads to irrational behavious, sweating, dilation of pupils, flushed face, blurred vision, faster heart beats and an increase in the rate of respiration. Nausea and vomiting are also more common. Its overdose may cause severe headaches, convulsions and death due to respiratory failure....Physical dependance on cocaine is rare. Psychological dependance is much more common. The withdrawal symptoms include hunger, irritability, extreme fatigue, depression, restlessness and loss of sleep."

I hope this clears up some stuff. Let me remind you that this specific chapter of the textbook is aimed at informing students about drugs and their issues, and has handled this in the best way possible so that it can remain true to the facts, as well as dissuade kids from getting into drugs.

From what I have read, marijuana seems relatively harmless compared to alcohol, and cocaine seems to have strong parallels with tobacco dependancy. I am not advocating or dissuading marijuana use, but i thought everyone should get the facts straight.

NOTE: I have never tried marijuana myself, but have tried one of the other derivatives of the hemp plant, bhang (from which the word "bong" comes). Bhang is legal in India (my country) and has been widely known for several centuries. It is usually added to drinks on special holidays, especially Holi (the festival of colour). In fact, a recipe for making Bhang Falooda was printed on the second page of a leading Indian newspaper. Holi is famous for its "crazy aunties" who get high on bhang. I have also heard from several friends and cousins in the USA (who presumably have had first hand experience) that marijuana is not addictive, and have told me of "friends who did pot all summer and then stopped when school started". They unanimously agree, though that cocaine is very addictive.

J. Halbert wrote: I respect the opinion of Erik, you, and anybody else regardless of their stance. What I ask is that you refrain from personal attacks and do your best to respect my ideas as well.

Interesting, I didn't read any personal attacks in the comment you referenced. He attacked your idea but not you personally.

Personally, I respect your ability to hold an opinion and to state it and make it available for discussion and discourse. But it is obvious to those of us reading it that you really don't know anything about marijuana, its effects and the physical consequences of using it. Hence, your ideas for "scaring everyone out of using it" because of its incredible danger to turn users into mindless, nonfunctional cretins comes across as simply shallow, uninformed balderdash.

That's still not attacking you. I'm sure you're a great person who has wonderful intentions. I just don't agree with your ideas.

Here's a counter thought. Make marijuana legal. Make vehicular manslaughter under the influence punishable by death, period.

Why should you or anyone else care if I get drunk or stoned in my house? It's somewhat similar to the legislation that outlaws something like oral sex between consenting -- even married for that matter -- adults. It's dumb legislation or legislation that's solely enacted to make sure "I" do only things "you" approve of, regardless of any other consideration.

However, if I endanger the lives of people on the road, that's a whole new issue.

The thing is, marijuana is practically legal in many parts of the nation. I've been in several cities where police won't even arrest for possession of a small amount. Also, yes, it is extremely low on the priority ladder. Legalizing it would not be too big of a leap from the way things are now. People would just stop pretending that they care.

I've actually heard many arguments against the legalization of marijuana from heavy users because they predict that it will actually drive up prices.

The view on Marijuana, a personal retort.
my similar yet rather extensive retort as well

Maybe is we call it the "Patriot Puff" it could be OK to stop regulating this one little thing that only a very few people put in their bodies?

Please see my very lengthy response located in my column.

-Josh

Also-

As it says in my followup, I don't know what happened when my original article stopped accepting comments and I can't seem to solve the problem. Any more comments you have please post on my new article.

-Josh

I've got an article to counter this, check my column.

To the person that said "Marijuana is the LEAST DANGEROUS drug out there. It is NOT addictive, or dependancy creating."

What to you make when you smoke Marijuana? That's right, most often a joint mixed with tobacco. There are of course other methods out there, but in many cases tobacco makes it burn better. Tobacco is considered a dangerous and addictive drug, and I've actually see non-smokers crossing over because they became addicted through weed! That's 1. Furthermore, weed can be psychologically addictive, which is harder to measure and thus not recorded that often in the scientific literature. It can cause depression, isolation, paranoia, all when consumed in a continuous high dosage. Who knows what it can cause in combination with tobacco.. It is a sedative and can cause you to react slower, while driving for instance.

I'm not saying don't use it. But people should make an informed decision about it, rather than just read about it in a biology-book.

Joints are rarely mixed with tobacco. And you're partially right the possibility of addiction- for most 'addicts' the craving could be compared to a favorite food craving(for example, a 'pizza addict'. But there are some cases whereas the user exhibits the symptoms aforementioned, but most are rare, and could be attributed to factors other than Delta-9-THC or any other substance 'foreign' to the body found in Marijuana.

Except for paranoia, almost every marijuana user is paranoid while under the influence. This could be a good thing in some cases though, such as driving(could be a reason of why such a low death rate due to marijuana exists).